Has LPD read the parking ordinance?

[Eric Tietze]

Originally Posted by Bill Rook

I think the parking issue is a small step in bringing Lebanon back to reality. Everyone should know by now that you can't park however you please. Many cities around the state would boot your car for illegal parking. That's an expensive and time consuming ordeal. The officer is enforcing a state law and city ordinance that was gaffed off by Mustard and crew for years. Nobody can dispute the fact that illegal parking was rampant and has been for years. If the officer has idle time and desires to write infractions during the remainder of his tour, I think he should go for it, as long as the cited infractions are factual. At least he's earning his keep, travelling around the city neighborhoods and not sitting at the headshed waiting to be dispatched. I doubt the PD will suffer a PR problem over parking tickets. If so, it will be from those that were offenders. IMO, there are several more ordinances that should be enforced. You have to ask yourself... Do I want the PD to do their job or partially do their job?

I personally don't have a problem with the ordinance being enforced. I think they should read the ordinance though so they aren't making people take time to fight a ticket that is not a valid ticket in the first place.

I do wonder why they have time to write parking tickets, but don't have time to check if a person has charges against them prior to releasing them and don't have time to catalog and photograph a person's property that was stolen so they can get it back. I know if my computer were stolen and it took them a couple weeks to catalog it and get it back to me, it could cost me quite a bit of money.

Do I think they should enforce all of the cities ordinances? Yes. Do I think if you're looking at a matter of not enough time to do everything you should prioritize? Absolutely. Which is a greater good to the city as a whole, keeping felons in jail, returning personal property to its rightful owners or writing frivolous parking tickets to someone who isn't in violation of the city ordinance? I would choose the first two options over the third. I would choose the first two options over the third even if it is someone breaking the ordinance.

Parking across someone's driveway, or in a manner to block their driveway, is a lot different situation as it could keep that person from making it to work on time, potentially costing them their job. It could also keep emergency services from reaching the person if needed. Not to mention that it's just a huge pain the butt.

[Bill Rook]

Originally Posted by Eric Tietze

I personally don't have a problem with the ordinance being enforced. I think they should read the ordinance though so they aren't making people take time to fight a ticket that is not a valid ticket in the first place.

I do wonder why they have time to write parking tickets, but don't have time to check if a person has charges against them prior to releasing them and don't have time to catalog and photograph a person's property that was stolen so they can get it back. I know if my computer were stolen and it took them a couple weeks to catalog it and get it back to me, it could cost me quite a bit of money.

Do I think they should enforce all of the cities ordinances? Yes. Do I think if you're looking at a matter of not enough time to do everything you should prioritize? Absolutely. Which is a greater good to the city as a whole, keeping felons in jail, returning personal property to its rightful owners or writing frivolous parking tickets to someone who isn't in violation of the city ordinance? I would choose the first two options over the third. I would choose the first two options over the third even if it is someone breaking the ordinance.

Parking across someone's driveway, or in a manner to block their driveway, is a lot different situation as it could keep that person from making it to work on time, potentially costing them their job. It could also keep emergency services from reaching the person if needed. Not to mention that it's just a huge pain the butt.

Eric, I too believe the ordinances should be enforced and if citing someone, it should always be for a valid and lawful reason. Multiple writings of the same invalid infraction is inexcusable, provided the issuing officer was informed he was wrong after you settled the first one. If not, that tells me the municipal court, chief and the issuing officer didn't make contact to ensure it didn't happen again. Sounds like an item worth mentioning at PD roll calls.

Your argument comparing parking tickets, booting people that should have been retained and getting property back to the owner doesn't fly, short of being a departmental issue. Unless it was the same officer involved in all three cases, they can't be compared. Yes, booting the individual was a foolish mistake, but is not common at the LPD.

Officer Ticket (#326) works the late shift. After the bulk of the nightly traffic slows, he chooses to stay busy by enforcing ordinances. You really can't fault him for that, because that's also part of his job. He's being paid to enforce, not sit and wait for a call. If there are more important issues he need to attend to, I can see your point of prioritizing his work. Several obviously do not follow Officer Ticket's work ethic. This is evident by the number of cruisers that have been seen sitting at the station, when they should be out cruising the city. Maybe they were catching up on paperwork, maybe they weren't, I don't know. But I do know, officers are also working on existing/active cases during their work shift. This also includes stolen property cases, as you mentioned.

During the Mustard days, it was common to see the entire "on-duty" shift at the station, minus those that were actively on call. On occasion, I've called the station for an officer and could barely hear the dispatcher for the laughter, joking and loud talk in the background. It was rare to see an officer cruise my neighborhood, unless they were driving past, along East Bland. Most times, if it wasn't for Whispering Pines and Silverwood, you wouldn't see a cop at all. During the wee hours, you could easily find a group sitting in a coffee shop for extensive periods.

Getting personal property back to the owner is a valid point. I've never had an occasion to deal with that aspect of law enforcement. My Mom had a stolen item recovered once and it took a while to get it back. But, it was taken along with a pickup truck load of things stolen from the area, so I guess it wasn't such a long wait after all. All the stolen property was kept at a remote location and she had to meet an officer there to get a photo taken of her holding the item for identification.

The driveway parking deal was indeed a safety issue. In partially blocking my drive access, I had to back into the street facing oncoming traffic. That made my actions unlawful as well. But I'd rather we didn't discuss that further.

[momma]

Bill maybe your "[B]The driveway parking deal was indeed a safety issue. In partially blocking my drive access, I had to back into the street facing oncoming traffic. That made my actions unlawful as well. But I'd rather we didn't discuss that further" [B] unlawful actions were just a little old fashion attitude adjustment

[Bill Rook]

Originally Posted by momma

Bill maybe your "[B]The driveway parking deal was indeed a safety issue. In partially blocking my drive access, I had to back into the street facing oncoming traffic. That made my actions unlawful as well. But I'd rather we didn't discuss that further" [B] unlawful actions were just a little old fashion attitude adjustment

It didn't adjust my attitude, but it did make a difference in those that received tickets for altering traffic.

[Eric Tietze]

Originally Posted by Bill Rook

Your argument comparing parking tickets, booting people that should have been retained and getting property back to the owner doesn't fly, short of being a departmental issue. Unless it was the same officer involved in all three cases, they can't be compared. Yes, booting the individual was a foolish mistake, but is not common at the LPD.

I'm not trying to equate the 3 different instances, other than exactly as you said "a departmental issue." I don't believe the parking tickets were anything other than officers doing what they're told to do and trying to enforce an ordinance they haven't been properly informed about. Which is kind of my point. I believe if the chief is going to have a new push on an old ordinance he should inform his officers of all of the in's and out's of said ordinance. If he doesn't completely understand the ordinance, or when tickets should and shouldn't be issued, then he should consult the city's legal council or the prosecuting attorney and then inform his officers of how the ordinance is to be applied.

I have NO problem with them enforcing the ordinances. I have a problem with the 'oh well' attitude I received from the first officer and the chief. The chief said he hadn't really read the ordinance in a while and wasn't sure what it said on curbs vs. no curbs. I really don't care to pay a ticket if I'm in the wrong, I've done it a few times for speeding and never fought it. It was the attitude of the chief and the first officer I spoke with that was the real concern for me. 'It's only $15' isn't a good argument for giving an unsubstantiated ticket in my opinion. And the chief's attitude of basically saying just do what they say even though there's no ordinance I'm in violation of, didn't sit well with me either.

I also understand that when the traffic slows, the officer starts looking for other ordinances to enforce. I think that is good and shows a lot of initiative on the officer's part. I do wonder if there may be other things that should maybe be a higher priority. Again, maybe not. I don't work at the department and don't know how many people are on staff that time of night or how many are on the road vs. at the PD, I just think if they don't have time to return an individual's property it really should be made important to do so.

I do agree with you that there have been a LOT of positive changes in our police force since we got the new chief. For one, I've never seen them look more professional than they do now. I think that is a great think. I also see much more of a police presence on the streets than in the past. Again, a positive improvement. I just think there are a few things that could still improve.

[Bill Rook]

Originally Posted by Eric Tietze

I'm not trying to equate the 3 different instances, other than exactly as you said "a departmental issue." I don't believe the parking tickets were anything other than officers doing what they're told to do and trying to enforce an ordinance they haven't been properly informed about. Which is kind of my point. I believe if the chief is going to have a new push on an old ordinance he should inform his officers of all of the in's and out's of said ordinance. If he doesn't completely understand the ordinance, or when tickets should and shouldn't be issued, then he should consult the city's legal council or the prosecuting attorney and then inform his officers of how the ordinance is to be applied.

I have NO problem with them enforcing the ordinances. I have a problem with the 'oh well' attitude I received from the first officer and the chief. The chief said he hadn't really read the ordinance in a while and wasn't sure what it said on curbs vs. no curbs. I really don't care to pay a ticket if I'm in the wrong, I've done it a few times for speeding and never fought it. It was the attitude of the chief and the first officer I spoke with that was the real concern for me. 'It's only $15' isn't a good argument for giving an unsubstantiated ticket in my opinion. And the chief's attitude of basically saying just do what they say even though there's no ordinance I'm in violation of, didn't sit well with me either.

I also understand that when the traffic slows, the officer starts looking for other ordinances to enforce. I think that is good and shows a lot of initiative on the officer's part. I do wonder if there may be other things that should maybe be a higher priority. Again, maybe not. I don't work at the department and don't know how many people are on staff that time of night or how many are on the road vs. at the PD, I just think if they don't have time to return an individual's property it really should be made important to do so.

I do agree with you that there have been a LOT of positive changes in our police force since we got the new chief. For one, I've never seen them look more professional than they do now. I think that is a great think. I also see much more of a police presence on the streets than in the past. Again, a positive improvement. I just think there are a few things that could still improve.

I understand your points and they are valid ones. I guess I ddn't fully understand your meaning in citing the 3 different situations. I don't know how the determination was made to clean up parking, but it was very obvious that it was a problem. Cars parked first one way then another, on sidewalks, across driveways, 2' or more from curbs, over top of curbs, wrong side of 2-way streets, blocking alleyways and so on. I agree that if pushig ordinances, everyone should have refreshed their memories and made copies of the particular ordinances for "in-car" reference.

The attitude you experienced was unprofessional. I agree that it's not the $15, but what's right or wrong, based on principle and legality. The officer may have other things that should be priorities, but we actually don't know. One thing we can say is, ordinance enforcement requires neighborhood canvassing. That is a good thing. In the summertime, it's even better. There is a lot of foot traffic on warm nights. Many pedestrians are young folks that have nothing to do and that sometimes fosters trouble. They need to lay eyes on a cop every once in a while.

Returning property should only take a phone call to set up a time to meet the officer and retrieve it. Sometimes it does take what seems to be an unreasonable amount of time, but I don't know exactly what is involved in releasing it.

I too think the PD is a lot better today than it has been in the past. There are things that I would suggest they should concentrate on from a citizen's perspective, but I'm still satisfied with them and the job they do. They do look sharp in appearance, but I would swap the cabbie hats for ballcaps with LPD patches. I'm sure the cabbies are uncomfortable and certainly hot in the summer. They are also not preferred, when actively involved in foot chases. As a Marine, I never liked "barracks cover". They gave me headaches.

[Nanapower]

Parking Ticket





Working people frequently ask retired people what they do to make their days interesting.

Well, for example, the other day my wife and I went into town and went into a shop.
We were only in there for about 5 minutes.When we came out, there was a cop writing out a parking ticket.




We went up to him and said, 'Come on man, how about giving a senior citizen a break?'



He ignored us and continued writing the ticket. I called him a Nazi turd. He glared at me and started writing another ticket for having worn tires.




So my wife called him a s**t-head. He finished the second ticket and put it on the windshield with the first. Then he started writing a third ticket. This went on for about 20 minutes. The more we abused him, the more tickets he wrote.

Personally, we didn't care. We came into town by bus and the car had an Obama sticker. We try to have a little fun each day now that we're retired. It's important at our age.

[Bill Rook]

Originally Posted by Nanapower

Parking Ticket





Working people frequently ask retired people what they do to make their days interesting.

Well, for example, the other day my wife and I went into town and went into a shop.
We were only in there for about 5 minutes.When we came out, there was a cop writing out a parking ticket.




We went up to him and said, 'Come on man, how about giving a senior citizen a break?'



He ignored us and continued writing the ticket. I called him a Nazi turd. He glared at me and started writing another ticket for having worn tires.




So my wife called him a s**t-head. He finished the second ticket and put it on the windshield with the first. Then he started writing a third ticket. This went on for about 20 minutes. The more we abused him, the more tickets he wrote.

Personally, we didn't care. We came into town by bus and the car had an Obama sticker. We try to have a little fun each day now that we're retired. It's important at our age.

DaVonna, was that actually YOUR car? The Obama sticker makes me wonder.

[Nanapower]

Originally Posted by Bill Rook

DaVonna, was that actually YOUR car? The Obama sticker makes me wonder.

I wasn't going to tell but you have to watch out when Ross and Jenn take the bus.